Pray for the soul of Mary B. of Marlboro MA

who passed away yesterday.

Thank you,

K.C.

South American Cardinal invites his flock to kneel for Holy Communion!

Cardinal of Lima, Peru invites his flock to kneel for Holy Communion! (Thanks, Father Z, for the heads up!) http://www.arzobispadodelima.org/notas/2009/agosto/230809b.html

>>>le pido a los sacerdotes y religiosos que ese respeto visible al Cuerpo de Cristo se manifieste y que no esté entregándose el Cuerpo de Cristo como quien reparte unos papeles<<<> ("I implore all you priests and religious to make this respect for the Body of Christ manifest and that you do not distribute the Body of Christ as you would hand out papers")

Bishop Athanasius Schneider has a stronger simile... '...handing out keks [cookies]'

then there is K. C.'s simile...

...look familiar?

K.C.

K.C. appeals to LifeTeen President! (K.C.'s new hero)

President Raus!

Sorry for waiting for so long to respond, but I wanted to leave your letter at the top of my blog a little while longer and let it soak in on LifeTeen's detractors, (of whom I was one).

I admit, you have astounded me! I did not think you would answer my question...few would(clerics in particular). And of the few that would, even fewer answer correctly. ( the obvious escape is to say that liturgy's all a matter of personal preference.)

Instead of fluffy platitudes, your letter affirmed:

1. The Pope, in having people kneel for Communion, is doing something meaningful!

2. That meaning is " further emphasizing the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist." !!!

Given what we agree upon, the next question falls inevitably:

When is a good time not to further emphasize the True Presence?

(logically that would be the only time we should receive standing, sitting or in whatever non-kneeling posture modern liturgists can conjure up) I have yet to comprehend God's wonderful Gift so I will take all the emphasizing I can get.

I plead with you simply to finish what you have begun! Why wish and wait for an edict to fall from above? Did we wait for the Pope's edict before we instituted hand holding? Tamborines? A whole bunch of devotional practices which have more in common with Woodstock than with the Church of our ancestors? (Edicts, commands, elicit only the enthusiasm of teenagers when they are told to turn off the TV!)

Now we have a clear invitation from His Holiness to deepen our devotion. An humble reminder he places before us and the world every day: we should not stand before Jesus like He's the clerk at Circle K who owes us spare change! but instead fall down before Him like....... He's Jesus! and we are the grateful leper who owes Him everything! We now have the opportunity to follow voluntarily, freely, out of sheer love for Our Lord. It costs us nothing.

If we cannot exercise our wills to do the right thing when it costs us nothing, then what will we do when it does cost us?

K. C.

>>>>later, from President Raus....K.C.

Thanks for your kind response.

Peace,

Randy

Randy RausPresident/CEO<<<<

K.C.'s new hero, LifeTeen President Randy Raus, says Pope's kneeling Communion emphasizes the True Presence of Christ!

..Raus breaks the 'gag rule' and answers the question which American priests and bishops are afraid to answer! [I'm purple, he's black and I underlined portions of his letter]

>>>K.C.

In your recent message you asked me the question:

Do you see the Pope's use of kneeler to distribute Holy Communion as something meaningful?
and if so, what do you see as its meaning?

I do see it as meaningful as the Holy Father’s actions are always significant as he is in direct apostolic succession to Saint Peter, appointed by Christ Himself to lead and govern Christ's followers on Earth.

I believe the Holy Father by asking the faithful to kneel at Papal Masses to receive Holy Communion is further emphasizing the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist. If the GIRM or the local Bishops make this the Liturgical norm at parishes, Life Teen will be joyfully obedient. Life Teen is committed to helping young people understand the “real presence” of Christ in the Eucharist.

Peace,Randy

Randy RausPresident/

CEOLife Teen Leading Teens Closer To <<<
Hear that? We sheep just need shepherding!
Maybe an 'edict' is not needed, but just for priests and bishops to mention the Holy Father's humble example!
K.C>

[TUES 25 AUG UPDATE] An Invitation to Life Teen President Randy Raus to join our crusade!

(or at least break the American 'gag rule') [(TUES.) My source's have it that President Raus visited the K. C. site twice yesterday, 24th. Let's hope and pray that he is contemplating how to respond to the Pope's humble example!!]

Dear President Raus,

Thanks for your prompt response! I posted it on my blog (with one comment of my own....http://kneelingcatholic.blogspot.com/)


I am including a portion of a 'Catholic News Service' article from last year which wherein the master of papal ceremonies announced the requirement to kneel for Communion, and a bunch of video links, including some from WYD last year. It has been in force for well over a year.

There does seem to be some sort of 'gag rule' for American Catholic leaders with regards to even mentioning the Holy Father's humble example!

If I may I would like to pose a question to you, i.e.:

Do you see the Pope's use of kneeler to distribute Holy Communion as something meaningful? and if so, what do you see as its meaning?

Thanks!

K.C.


>>>>(CNS) Vatican: Receiving Eucharist kneeling will be norm at papal liturgies

[http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0803381.htm]

By Carol GlatzCatholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Receiving the Eucharist on the tongue while kneeling before the pope will become the norm at papal liturgies, said the Vatican's liturgist.While current norms allow the faithful to receive the Eucharist in the hand while standing, Pope Benedict XVI has indicated a preference for the more traditional practice, said Msgr. Guido Marini, master of papal liturgical ceremonies.

Kneeling and receiving Communion on the tongue highlights

"the truth of the real presence (of Christ) in the Eucharist, helps the devotion of the faithful and introduces the sense of mystery more easily," he said in a June 26 interview with the Vatican newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano.Pastorally speaking, he said "it is urgent to highlight and recover" these aspects of the sacredness and mystery of the Eucharist in modern times....<<<<

http://de.gloria.tv/?media=6738

http://gloria.tv/?media=10300

http://gloria.tv/?media=10221


http://gloria.tv/?media=8984

http://de.gloria.tv/?media=15835

http://de.gloria.tv/?media=14355

http://de.gloria.tv/?media=24662

Life Teen President visits Kneeling Catholic and even writes back!

[I'm purple and he's black]

"El Presidente" Raus reads his emails and even responds! I'll write him back after I have had a chance to digest the following very nice letter.....[that's my underlining in his text, not his.]

K.C.!

Thanks for taking the time to email us. Life Teen is committed to leading teens closer to Christ. The two primary ways we hope to accomplish this is through Holy Eucharist (primarily Mass and Adoration) and a strong devotion to our Blessed Mother Mary. We are obedient to the Magesterium and the Bishops of the Catholic Church. We are not currently aware of the “Holy Father’s Campaign for Kneeling to Receive Holy Communion”. I looked at your blog but was unable to see a link or article where this campaign had been announced officially from our Holy Father. For instance this was not something that was asked of participants at Papal Masses at World Youth Day in Sydney

[Whoah there Mr. President, I must interrupt here, It was pretty noticeable that all who received from the Holy Father in Sydney-- as everywhere else since last year's Feast of Corpus Christi-- were required to kneel and receive on the tongue. I'll get you a link to some footage. The Pope's reverent distribution was quite a contrast to the other priests on the outskirts of the crowd who were almost tossing Hosts like frisbees.((or was it boomerangs?))

With regards to your request for some sort of pronouncement: A friend tells me that whenever he leaves his sweaty underwear on the bathroom floor, his wife drops it all on his pillow. She doesn't say a word and yet that's communication!
Do you think her saying something is going to add to the message? ditto for the Pope. The message is there for all who will listen. I am trying to remember a saying about 'actions' and 'words'.... how's that go?]

Please help me to understand as it is our understanding that the norm that the Bishops in the US at least have asked is for people to receive either standing and reverently bowing just before receiving or kneeling to receive. We encourage and support either form. If there has been some change to this and standing is no longer allowed, please help us to understand so we can instruct young people how to properly receive Communion. ....

During Eucharistic Adoration Life Teen continues to instruct teens and adults to kneel. These are exciting times for ministry with youth as we also see teens being interested and participating in other traditional forms of prayer like the Rosary, Lectio Divina, The Liturgy of the Hours and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Blessings on your ministry and please advise on the new norms as we are currently not aware of the changes to the GIRM.

Peace,

RandyRandy RausPresident/CEOLife Teen Leading Teens Closer To Christ

Erica! did you set me up? :-)

K.C.

K.C. writes Life Teen heads about the Pope's kneeler

To:rraus@lifeteen.com

Cc:mhart@lifeteen.com


Hello Sirs!

I am writing to know if LifeTeen has been making any efforts to help the Holy Father restore kneeling during Holy Communion. (I'd be all for it!!)

I did see a utube video advocating kneeling which had (I think) LifeTeen's very own Matt Maher singing on the sound track.

I (we) would very much like to know if LifeTeen is behind this effort!

thanks!



K. C.
http://kneelingcatholic.blogspot.com/

Kneeling Catholics! want to be underwhelmed?!

I know I'll get into trouble with 'Erica' for being judgemental.....but I got to say it----

just saw the tail end of Archbishop Aymond's installation on EWTN. you guessed it --Holy Communion! Standing Catholics 1,378; Kneelin Catholics -- zero. no patens, nothing!

Is that James Carville bringing up the gifts??

Cut myself when I jumped thru the widescreen to start slapping people!! HD looks so lifelike!

Darn! I think I might have to go the the ER!!

I hope Matt Maher and the LifeTeen gang can beat theNew Orleans Archdiocese this weekend. Shouldn't be hard, but Erica has my hopes high!

K. C. has spies.....you lifeteeners might spot me! just look for the --ahhh---- person with the stitched up chompa!

K. C.

Is LifeTeen on board with Holy Father's kneeler?

Erica has 'informed the ignorant (me)'.



with regards to Matt Maher, I think he does the music for thevideo link below. If he cooperated, intending to 'join the Pope's crusade for kneeling Communion' ....then....I have egg all over my face.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIj-nD3qXVM



regardless of whether I agree with Maher's music. My challenge to Erica was to prove that LifeTeen is helping the Holy Father with his intentions. Erica, in her own way of teaching LifeTeen's to kneel and forego hand Communion, is. If Matt Maher is doing as much as Erica is to make people kneel, then my world is turning upside down!

Father Zuhlsdorf says 'brick by brick' when he speaks about reforming the reform. I see kneeling for Communion as more of a foundational boulder. In other words, lets do this first and then go from there. I came to this fight late....I didn't kneel until I saw Bishop Schneider's book the beginning of last year--and the Pope's kneeler (again last year). Let's unite about what we know is right!

All you LifeTeeners out there....inform me some more!

(UPDATED 20 AUG!) 'Erica' lets Kneeling Catholic have it!

(my comments are purple, Erica and others comments are in black)

Lifeteen Star Matt Maher to be in Corpus Christi 22 AUG.

The other day, for a snack, I gave my children a choice between eating 'Cheetos' and eating an apple. They grabbed the Cheetos. My folly kind of reminds me a little of this picture of a Lifeteen event.

The Diocese of Corpus Christi is sponsoring Saturday's event @ Del Mar College. It costs each person $20 to attend. I'm sure most of "the kids will love it." But isthat why we have the Church? To give the kids what they want?

I am afraid these events greatly confuse young people about the relationship between spirituality and raw emotionalism because they simply equate the two.

I cannot imagine any Catholics before 'the age of Aquarius' attending such an event. Maybe I am wrong. So I must ask: Does this look like the Church of our fathers? Is this the Catholic worship our martyrs died for?

lex orandi, lex credendi (as we pray, so we believe)

K. C.

Erica said...
Is this not a generation that is living in the wake of the descent of the Holy Spirit? Did the Holy Spirit not enable our first Bishops to stand in the presence of all peoples and proclaim God in tongues? Since when has being emtional about God conflicted with spirituality?There is a BIG difference between the straight emotionality people experience at Protestan ecumenical communities and the worship that occurs at events like this. Our teens are catechized as well as evangelized.Who are you to judge someone else's spirituality? "The measure with which you measure will be measured unto you."The ability to worship our Lord freely- this is what the martyrs died for! Instead of attacking your fellow devout Catholics, pray for them.
August 18, 2009 3:01 PM
padraig said...
Erica: you seem judged already which did not occur. you seem pretty defensive...which the first bishops did not express to proclaim God...and people need to clarify when they speak of 'tongues'. Speaking in tongues means different known languages, not some mumbo jumbo that some spirit is instilling to show some divine but unintelligible presence that cannot be judged. Also, do not assume that you are not being prayed for even when you think you are being attacked. Control over your emotions shows spiritual maturity.
August 18, 2009 3:17 PM
Erica said...
I have read KC's opinion of Life Teen before. Yes, Life Teen was judged on this blog. Being a very devoted Core member for the Life Teen group at my parish, I do take offense to that.He called Matt Maher a "Life Teen rock star" when the reality is Matt Maher is a Catholic musician who sings of transubstantiation and other Catholic teachings. He compares him to cheetos for Heaven's sake. Excuse my spiritual immaturity for being upset by that. KC does not know Matt Maher personally, nor does KC know Matt's soul. None of us but God does. And there is no folly in lifting your hands to praise God. I'm glad judgement did not stop King David from dancing before the Lord. KC won't stop me from raising my hands to praise the Lord either. The Spirit enables me to do so and there is no folly in that.

Hello Erica and Padraig!

thanks for tuning in! I'll chime back in when I finish responding to all of Erica's responses!

Erica, you responded to every question, even the rhetorical ones! At any rate, I greatly value your contribution to this discussion, (especially because you are 'lifeteen') and I will be on my best behavior to keep from offending you and chasing you away!

pray for me!

K. C.

I'm back!! I going to repost Erica's responses, in black, with my purple responses.......

>>>Is this not a generation that is living in the wake of the descent of the Holy Spirit? Did the Holy Spirit not enable our first Bishops to stand in the presence of all peoples and proclaim God in tongues? Since when has being emtional about God conflicted with spirituality?
There is a BIG difference between the straight emotionality people experience at Protestan ecumenical communities and the worship that occurs at events like this. Our teens are catechized as well as evangelized.Who are you to judge someone else's spirituality? "The measure with which you measure will be measured unto you."<<<

[Erica! 19AUG2009 --i'm finally chiming in....

you are writing off Protestant worship as 'straight emotionality'. I don't see it that way. Protestant modes of worship, like the altar call, the camp meeting, are a good fit for Protestant theology. They are not "100% straight emotionality". What they do makes sense if you believe what they believe: specifically that the Holy Spirit deals primarily with individual believers who simply need to experience Him directly for Salvation and that there is no such thing as the Holy Mass or an identifiable Church which has been speaking for God for the past two thousand years.

What confuses me is when Catholics start worshiping that way. We seem to be setting up a competitor for the Holy Mass, as it has been celebrated down thru the centuries, and for the seven Sacraments.

If Lifeteen's innovations really are from the Holy Spirit, then why am I not justified in thinking that Protestantism, which pioneered tongues speaking and healing services 100 years before Catholics, and altar calls, and Communion in the Hand 500 years before any Catholics did, must then be more in tune with the Holy Spirit than the Catholic Church?

Whenever we adopt modes of worship which were foreign to our grandfathers and their grandfathers, are we not proclaiming that their Faith, the timeless and universal Catholic Faith, was somehow missing the boat? and not just the Faith of old, but also the Faith of Catholics in other parts of the World. For example, I know American Catholics who, when they go into Mexico for mission work have to forget their Lifeteen habits, like hand Communion, to keep from offending the natives. ]

>>The ability to worship our Lord freely- this is what the martyrs died for!<<

[Many good men and women have died for the cause you mention, but I don't agree that that makes them Catholic martyrs. As a matter of fact, I think many of our martyrs of old would have suffered death rather than participate in a Lifeteen Mass. I'm not exaggerating!]

>>instead of attacking your fellow devout Catholics, pray for them.<<<

(Agreed!)

Erica said...I have read KC's opinion of Life Teen before. Yes, Life Teen was judged on this blog. Being a very devoted Core member for the Life Teen group at my parish, I do take offense to that.He called Matt Maher a "Life Teen rock star" when the reality is Matt Maher is a Catholic musician who sings of transubstantiation and other Catholic teachings. He compares him to cheetos for Heaven's sake. Excuse my spiritual immaturity for being upset by that. KC does not know Matt Maher personally, nor does KC know Matt's soul. None of us but God does. And there is no folly in lifting your hands to praise God. I'm glad judgement did not stop King David from dancing before the Lord. KC won't stop me from raising my hands to praise the Lord either. The Spirit enables me to do so and there is no folly in that.

[Erica!

if you could tell me that Lifeteen is trying to help the Pope's campaign to spread kneeling Communion or even just to promote celebration of the Latin Mass, and not dragging their feet like so many American priests and bishops, then I would take everything back that I have written against the program and apologize too. Really!

I am sure what you do, you do out of love for God and a clean conscience.

I do want you to pray for me!

K. C.]

Erica said...
KC, I beg to differ on the Protestants pioneering "tongues speaking and healing services 100 years before Catholics". I distinctly remember our Lord sending His disciples forth and telling them to heal the sick and cast out demons, etc. Jesus also performed healings among large crowds. Sounds like the pioneer of healing services was Jesus, the founder of the Church. As far as praying in tongues, again, I mention that on Pentecost the Spirit manifested Himself that way through the Apostles. Doesn't that seem more like the Church pioneered these things then?Of course, I am an orthodox, obedient Catholic through and through, but as my former pastor once said, "The Holy Spirit isn't exclusive to the Catholic Church."

Yes, the magisterium is the final say on all things. But I don't see them banning hand raising, praying in tongues, having healing services, and the like. It is possible for the Spirit to work through other denominations, but it also scares me that Catholics abandon the truth every day for places where they "feel" the Spirit. I have to question whether they knew their Faith at all if they are so easily led astray, but that is a totally different topic.I honestly can't speak for the entire Life Teen organization in regards to kneeling for Communion or the Latin Mass, but if you are interested in knowing their opinion, you can definitely speak with Randy Raus, the president of Life Teen. His email address is rraus@lifeteen.com and his office phone number is 480-820-7001. Mark Hart, the executive VP, can be reached at the same number or emailed at mhart@lifeteen.com.

I can tell you that from what I've seen and the lessons I've read, in my opinion Life Teen is completely obedient to the magisterium and the Holy Father. At our Life Teen Mass, there are people who choose to kneel to receive our Lord. We often express to our teens that the proper way to receive Jesus is with total reverence on the tongue and not in the hand; however, our Bishop has made it known that he wants people to exercise the ability to receive on the hand because Jesus said, "Take and eat." I really am not trying to change your opinion of Life Teen. I just wanted people to be informed.I minister to teens because they are the Church and live in such a difficult time. I do it out of love for Christ in them, and I thank God for the gift of my apostolate.
August 19, 2009 5:19 PM

Kneeling Catholic said...
Erica,I feel the earth moving under my feet! You are definitely changing my opinion of Life Teen in Corpus Christi! God bless you for what you're doing! ...more laterK.C.
August 19, 2009 6:16 PM

Hard-core Southern Baptist Seminary President moves towards the Church's position on contraception

One of the Southern Batists' most articulate leaders is moving Romeward. In his friday radio call- in show, Dr. Mohler pays particular honor to Humanae Vitae and its insight. Dr. Mohler, the president of Southern Theological Seminary in Louisville, noted that in two instances, i.e. abortion, and 'the pill' it was Rome who first 'manned the barricades' while evangelicals initially sat on their hands to keep from getting involved in a 'Catholic issue'...

http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2009-08-14

the following is an excerpt of Mohler's 2007 response to Dominus Iesus, the Church's reiteration of the doctrine that there is no salvation outside of the Church. He clearly likes the document.....

>>>>Aren’t you offended? That is the question many Evangelicals are being asked in the wake of a recent document released by the Vatican. The document declares that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church — or, in words the Vatican would prefer to use, the only institutional form in which the Church of Christ subsists. ...


No, I am not offended. In the first place, I am not offended because this is not an issue in which emotion should play a key role. This is a theological question, and our response should be theological, not emotional. Secondly, I am not offended because I am not surprised. No one familiar with the statements of the Roman Catholic Magisterium should be surprised by this development. This is not news in any genuine sense. It is news only in the current context of Vatican statements and ecumenical relations. Thirdly, I am not offended because this new document actually brings attention to the crucial issues of ecclesiology, and thus it presents us with an opportunity. ...


The Vatican document is very brief — just a few paragraphs in fact. Its official title is “Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine on the Church,” and it was released by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on June 29 of this year. Though many media sources have identified the document as a papal statement from Pope Benedict XVI, it is actually a statement from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that was later approved for release by the Pope (who, as Cardinal Ratzinger, headed this Congregation prior to assuming the papacy).
The document claims a unique legitimacy for the Roman Catholic Church as the church established by Christ. The document stakes this identity on a claim to apostolic succession, centered in the papacy itself. As the document states, “This Church, constituted and organised in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him.” ...


Lest anyone miss the point, the document then goes on to acknowledge that the churches of Eastern Orthodoxy also stake a claim to apostolic succession, and thus they are referred to as “Churches” by the Vatican. As for the churches born in whatever form out of the Reformation — they are not true churches at all, only “ecclesial communities.”[...]
Evangelicals should appreciate the candor reflected in this document. There is no effort here to confuse the issues. To the contrary, the document is an obvious attempt to set the record straight. The Roman Catholic Church does not deny that Christ is working redemptively through Protestant and evangelical churches, but it does deny that these churches which deny the authority of the papacy are true churches in the most important sense. The true church, in other words, is that church identified through the recognition of the papacy. Those churches that deny or fail to recognize the papacy are “ecclesial Communities,” not churches “in the proper sense.”
I appreciate the document’s clarity on this issue. It all comes down to this — the claim of the Roman Catholic Church to the primacy of the Bishop of Rome and the Pope as the universal monarch of the church is the defining issue. Roman Catholics and Evangelicals should together recognize the importance of that claim. We should together realize and admit that this is an issue worthy of division. The Roman Catholic Church is willing to go so far as to assert that any church that denies the papacy is no true church. Evangelicals should be equally candid in asserting that any church defined by the claims of the papacy is no true church. This is not a theological game for children, it is the honest recognition of the importance of the question.[...]
I actually appreciate the Pope’s concern. If he is right, we are endangering our souls and the souls of our church members. Of course, I am convinced that he is not right — not right on the papacy, not right on the sacraments, not right on the priesthood, not right on the Gospel, not right on the church.....


The Roman Catholic Church believes we are in spiritual danger for obstinately and disobediently excluding ourselves from submission to its universal claims and its papacy. Evangelicals should be concerned that Catholics are in spiritual danger for their submission to these very claims. We both understand what is at stake.[...entire article...]- Source: No, I’m Not Offended, Albert Mohler, July 13, 2007, at http://www.albertmohler.com/. Links added by Apologetics Index. <<<

I will try to improve this post later on..... What is noteworthy is Dr. Mohler's willingness to simply state the truth as he sees it and let pieces fall....

I would like to think that with this attitude, Dr. Mohler, were he ever to convert, would be quite willing to jettison the excess baggage that some of our more recent convert 'super stars' have insisted on stuffing into their overhead compartments.

pray for him

pray for k.c.

k.c.

K.C. agrees with Pope's Latin Mass critic

Well, at least on one point (see the next purple paragaph!)......U.S. Catholic's July addition carried an article by Ted Rosean which criticizes the Pope's decision to re-introduce and promote use of the Latin Mass. k.c.'s comments are in purple, Rosean's are black.

>>Take a pass on the Latin Mass (July 2009)

>>>>>At one end of the archdiocese where I live, A Mass is held in a gymnasium every Sunday, and a group of lively folk musicians accompany the assembly through a relaxed and informal liturgy. The mood reflects the music. Because it’s a gym, children seem to act less restrained, feeling free to roam a bit. Folding chairs are set up in a semi-circle around a portable altar that this group has used for many years. There are no kneelers, of course, reflecting to some extent the impracticality of portable kneelers, but reflecting to a greater extent the theology of those gathered: These are “looking up to God in trust, not bowing down to God in fear”

Whoah! I think Mr. Rosean is right about something that so many conservative Catholics ignore. i.e. eradicating kneeling does have a theological meaning! When conservatives, like Father Martin Fox don't and won't preach about the Holy Father's kneeler because because they are afraid even mentioning it might undermine the "American Church's norm for receiving Communion" They, the Pope's putative 'friends', are neglecting his teaching about our psychosomatic nature (Pope Benedict's term which means we are soul and body).

K. C. maintains is impossible for the American Church to eradicate kneeling during Communion without diminishing adoration of the Sacrament! If we lose this war, many 'conservatives' who are turning a blind eye to the Pope's brave example will have only themselves to blame ....

Kneeling has meaning, an intensity which all other postures lack. And it is not only intense worship! It is also intense gratitude! humility! Love!(you married men have never knealt before your wives?!) More than anything the aftermath of the Council has ushered in a casual, luke-warm, lackadaisical attitude towards the Holy Mass, and hence towards God. [The Holy Father has an antidote for our bad attitude--Get down!!]
...
Witness American Catholics, whose veneration--when they feel like doing it--resembles a tentative curtsie or maybe a bow from Liberace. Then witness Catholics in the former Soviet Republics whose churches are packed with people of all ages dropping to their knees on bare stone floors to receive Holy Communion! Who's fervent and who's lukewarm about worshipping Jesus?

>>>>....nurturing a view of church and theology that was born at the Second Vatican Council. I know many of these Catholics and consider them to be very good people. Their liturgy is, I believe, a scandal.
At the other end of the archdiocese, a priest adorned in shimmering vestments murmurs prayers in Latin, facing the tabernacle, his voice barely audible to the assembly of worshipers kneeling behind him. Many of these are silently and privately praying the rosary. At certain moments there is an exchange of words between the priest and the assembly. These words are in Latin.
The atmosphere is reverent, reflecting to some extent the mood naturally created by silence, candles, and Latin, but reflecting to a greater extent the theology of those gathered: These are “kneeling before God in awe, not back-slapping brother Jesus” Catholics, preserving a view of church and theology that was mostly set aside at the Second Vatican Council. I know one of the people in the assembly to be one of the finest human beings alive. He is my father, and his liturgy is, I believe, a scandal.
An outsider observing the two rituals would never guess they belonged to the same church. And in fact, many of the participants at the respective assemblies might admit that they don’t really share a faith with the participants in the “other” group. This is what makes these liturgies scandalous. They represent such polarized expressions of worship that they drift from the central purpose of liturgy as stated in the introduction of Sacrosanctum Concilium, the Second Vatican Council’s document on liturgy: “to be a sign lifted up among the nations, to those who are outside, a sign under which the scattered children of God may be gathered together until there is one fold and one shepherd.” A church practicing such divergent forms of worship will hardly unite the scattered children of God. [when the mass was celebrated in Latin, in the same manner, in all the earth's corners, that wasn't a sign of unity? ]
Currently we are many folds under a shepherd who last year stirred the pot with his apostolic letter Summorum Pontificum, sanctioning wider use of the old Latin or Tridentine Mass. Besides allowing individual parishes to conduct Latin Masses at the pastor’s discretion, secondhand reports suggest that Pope Benedict XVI would like to see a Latin Mass offered at every parish. Upon hearing this, I felt a rumbling that I’m certain was John XXIII, the pope who opened Vatican II, rolling in his grave. ............

....., the Latin replaced Greek because people understood Latin, and using Latin allowed more people to understand what was going on. In 1965 the church once again came to the seemingly obvious conclusion that people should understand what is being said in Mass.
 The Mass that emerged from the reform of Vatican II is wonderful, divine, human, and sublime. It works, and it is enormously superior to the Tridentine rite.[nice pontification there!] We do not need to celebrate an old rite. We need to get more people to celebrate the existing rite well.
The stakes are high. We participate in the liturgy to praise God and to be transformed so that we can transform the world. We need to do this together. We cannot gather the scattered children of God together if we ourselves are scattered.

Rosean uses terms 'drop back' 'rewind' 'old 'turning their backs to the monumental progress' to refer to the Pope's new emphasis upon the Latin Mass. He thinks these terms are pejoratives. Mr. Rosean! What does Faber's hymn 'Faith of our Fathers' mean to you ?

If your theme really is 'not your father's church!' then you sneer at 1,936 years of Catholic history prior to the age of Aquarius!

We are Catholics. This means our fellowship encompasses not only the entire World, but all of those who came before us. We're stuck with that.

I think Flannery O'connor once said that if the Eucharist were just a symbol, "then to hell with it."
Maybe you can see where I am going with this.
Fill in the blanks:
If it's not our fathers' church, then it's not the Church Jesus Christ founded!
therefore...
If it's not our fathers' church, then -------------
[Rosean's article can be found here....]
http://www.uscatholic.org/church/2009/07/two-rites-make-wrong

k.c.

Where you are recently

Jane Teresa's comments about banning Communion on the Tongue

[My comments in red]>>>I'm a visitor to the Diocese of Portsmouth[UK], from Saturday evening until Monday morning. This morning I went to Mass, and I'll go to Mass on Monday morning, before my visit ends.Some people might have heard that on the 24th July, Bishop Crispian Hollis issued the following directive, which is being adhered to throughout the Diocese:>>>>...

During the current swine flu epidemic, in keeping with the latest guidelines that I have received, I recommend that the following measures be implemented in Catholic Churches throughout the diocese from this weekend:The Sign of Peace during Mass: instead of a handshake members of the congregation are asked to join their hands together, as in prayer, turn to their immediate neighbours, bowing slightly and saying “Peace be with you”.Holy Communion is to be given only on the hand, not on the tongue or from the chalice.Ministers of the Sacred Host are asked to ensure their hands are washed with sanitizers (provided) before and after ministering communion.These regulations will remain in place until further notice. It is hoped that the reasons for this temporary policy will be understood and appreciated. They have been made out of particular pastoral concern for the vulnerable, namely, the elderly, children and those with underlying health problems.Bishop Crispian Hollis<<<,>>>....

Now I know that Fr. Z has previously written about the doubtful legality of mandating that Communion be received only in the hand, and not on the tongue. I'd like to just share my perspective as a layperson of not being permitted to receive on the tongue. It’s quite difficult to write about something as personal as how I receive Communion, but I think that the situation calls for it.As a Catholic, I have only ever received Communion on the tongue, and my decision was based on the simple instinct as to which method of reception was more reverent. I was clueless about the history of it, and that receiving on the hand is quite unprecedented. It was simply the gesture which appealed. I wanted to receive the Lord like a little child. ....

After two years as a Catholic, I started kneeling to receive the Lord every time I received, because I was being fed by God Himself and no other posture seemed fitting for reception of the Lord. It is saddening not to be able to kneel at a Communion rail, and wait for the Lord to come to me. But even if I must stand in a line, receiving kneeling, on the tongue, is an exterior gesture which has helped me to grow in an interior spirit of humility, receptivity and childlike docility.I later learned more about the sacredness of the Priesthood. I learned about the Priest’s consecrated hands and the sacredness of his ordained ministry. As a female layperson, I had seen many other female laypeople reaching into the Tabernacle, and traipsing round the sanctuary. Some parishes would comprise of three or four churches, with one priest, and an army of female ministers, who really seemed to run the show. Things were very “feminised” – in the worst sense of that word – which could never really attract manly young men to the Priesthood. Because I do spend a lot of my time in churches, I was sometimes asked to do things around the sanctuary, and to move the sacred vessels. People thought I was totally nuts for not feeling worthy to handle them. But I think it is for the Priest, and by extension, for his male servers, and not for me. If it is not for me to touch the sacred vessels, how greater is my unwillingness to touch the Body of the Lord with my unconsecrated hands!Let’s get it straight: Communion on the hand is licit. The fact that my conscience will not permit it does not mean that my subjective views are to be held above the legal decisions of our Holy Fathers Benedict and John Paul II. ....

My conscience simply pertains to me; someone who loves her Eucharistic Lord, and loves the sacramental Priesthood. Unfortunately, my conscience will not allow me to receive Communion on the hand, so I shall have to wait until Tuesday.Perhaps not everyone would suffer by being deprived Communion for two days. It must vary a great deal from person to person. It’s true that as you draw closer to the Lord, you can be thrust into a storm and yet remain tranquil and at peace. One can offer it up and draw closer to the Lord. But it has been painful. Perhaps Bishop Hollis has not considered how his decision, apart from its questionable legality and hygienic value, impacts upon people's consciences, and is leading people to be deprived of Holy Communion. >>>>

Bravo! I believe J.T.'s point about people's consciences being trampled upon is her strongest.

All the 'soft touch' prelates that pride themselves on their tolerance of pro-choice catholics, women's ordination, protestant and muslim brethren, clown dancing, etc... uncloak their daggers when it comes to kneeling Catholics....

I'm past thinking it is ironic....apparently all the above qualities fit very well together

k.c.

One priest in Corpus Christi diocese pays tribute to the real Corpus Christi

This picture was posted 7 AUG on Father Farfaglia's blog to set the stage for his upcoming Sunday sermon.

Father's Church, St. Helena's, is notorius in our town because everyone there is a 'kneeling Catholic'!

The cycle of Gospel readings the past couple of weeks from John 6 has been Eucharistic. Sadly in most parishes the Holy Father's most obvious testimony to the reality of Transubstantiation, i.e. making everyone kneel when they come in contact with It, is being deliberately ignored. (as with k.c.'s spat with Father Matthew Fox. earlier this week manifested!) Such priests say: "The Pope needs just to issue an edict, instead of setting an example!" Those same priests say "I don't have a problem with people kneeling, even if it is against the American Church's norm!" [no doubt, if the Pope issues a kneeling directive, they will be those saying "The Holy Father should have given us instruction before lording it over us!" They give lip service to being loyal to the pope, but they won't preach about the Holy Father's humble example because it might elicit the question....Why?

Once that simple question is asked, then the logical answers must inevitably put the standing, 'adult' American Catholics in a bad light.

from Father's blog:

>>>>In our modern times it is commonly understood that among Catholics there is an alarming loss of faith in the Real Presence. This massive loss of faith is expressed in the loss of reverence in our parishes. Sloppy dress, loud talking in church, cell phones going off, lack of Sunday attendance at Mass, and few people going to Confession, are all signs of a terrible loss of faith in something so fundamental to Catholicism. Sadly enough, many priests are right there with the people. Instead of patiently educating their congregation, they promote irreverent behavior because many of them have lost faith in the Real Presence of our Eucharistic Lord too.What is the cause of this disturbing apostasy?.....<<

>>Every Sunday during the Profession of Faith, we affirm our belief in eternal life. “We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come”. Do we really believe this?How many times do we ever hear convincing homilies about heaven, purgatory and hell? Rather than being an affirmation of the realities of eternity, funeral homilies tend to be a humanistic celebration of the person who has died. In our modern day culture we are continually bombarded by secularism and we need to be continually reminded of the most basic fundamentals of our Catholic Faith. But if many of the clergy no longer believe, what can we expect from the people? Is not this the reason why so many Catholics have left us and have joined evangelical Christian churches that really believe in and are excited about the Word of God?<<<

More about Life Teen's Concoctor

Sisters and brothers,I'm trying not to detract from anyone, but I don't believe it is a coincidence that both Archbishop Weakland who invented the 'hootenanny' [his word] youth masses and Msgr. Fushek who founded 'Life Teen' are numbered among the 'who's who' of those who have exposed the Church to skandal. I think it is fair to judge a movement by the character of its originators and it seems that both of these clerics are genuine characters ....

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14641

A Life Teen Mass for those who haven't seen it

[From the caption underneath the picture]

>>>>LIFE TEEN is...

a comprehensive youth ministry program with a strong focus on the Eucharist. Starting with a weekly LIFE TEEN Mass, high school teens are placed in an environment where they have the opportunity to experience fully the greatest gift we have as the Church. This liturgy provides the cultural connection for the teens - allowing them to take ownership of their faith.

...............Walk into the Prince of Peace Narthex any Sunday afternoon just prior to the LIFE Teen Mass and no doubt you'll be engulfed by lively, upbeat contemporary music as the LIFE Teen Band warms up and rehearses. Shortly before 6PM as teens grab the pews at the front of the sanctuary and their families scramble for the last remaining seats, the warm-up begins with the assembly. You'll hear lots of loud singing and clapping as everyone joins in songs of praise. Then, after a brief welcome, the celebration begins and for the next hour or so, everyone joins in celebrating the Eucharist together in joyful and prayerful songs that are geared for teens but liturgically sound.<<<

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.digitalcuts.com/POPLT/102-0216_IMG.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.digitalcuts.com/mall/P_POPLT.htm&usg=__4bJAG3Zjg4orihUXg774v_5WtzU=&h=1200&w=1600&sz=523&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=s9BH59mhjeKhdM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2527life%2Bteen%2527%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20

Conservative Father Martin Fox rebukes Kneeling Catholic over 'Life Teen'

'Ten Reasons' blog has a little discussion going on the value of 'Life Teen'.

Feel free comment here or over there.... (my comments are in red)


Father Martin Fox said...
My parishes use the Life Teen catechetical material. I reviewed it initially, before deciding to go with it, and my conclusions are the following: (a) it seemed designed to be creative and engaging, although it demands a lot of planning and organizing, so that may be daunting; (b) it seemed very solid, drawing on good sources. At the time, reviewing the materials, I looked for what it said about certain issues. Did it even touch upon controversial topics, and how much? And what did it say? Subjects such as chastity, the nature of the church, the sacraments, etc. The materials I reviewed weren't afraid of the subjects, dealt with them in some depth, and gave unapologetic support for what we believe. I also looked to see if the Church, the Catechism and the Holy Father were pointed to; again, very much so. ....

And finally, I looked to see what it said about the Eucharist; and that was, as far as I looked, very solid. (I'm sure I looked at other things, but this is what I recall.)The materials are designed to cover a whole set of important topics over four years time. Of course, they presuppose the catechesis that should happen through 8th grade.Now, that was several years ago, and I looked at it and moved on to other concerns. I relied, then and now, on the zeal and ongoing attention of my coordinator of religious education. I expect, and am confident, that he will want our materials to be entirely solid, and he is well positioned to catch anything amiss. Of course, if a parent ever has concerns, I count on them to tell me. ....

Where LifeTeen has taken knocks is on liturgy; in fairness to LifeTeen, some of the goofy stuff associated with them goes back a lot of years, and the organization corrected the bad advice they were giving; but some of those bad practices are still followed. That is the fault of the priests and parishes doing that. Now, their liturgical materials are not outstanding, but they're not counseling disobedience to the rubrics. But as a pastor, I pay zero attention to their liturgical materials anyway.What is appealing about Life Teen is that not only provides the content, it provides help in providing a method for drawing and involving the teens and in that context, teaching. Simply saying, at 7 pm we're going to have a class for high-school teens isn't going to cut it. Simply having fun-and-games isn't going to cut it, either. St. Augustine, talking about teaching Christian doctrine, said, "to teach, delight and persuade." Bottom line, I'm sure someone can find something to criticize, but I think they want to do the right thing.
Monday, August 3, 2009 11:25:00 AM EST
Paul said...
Lifeteen is a fantastic organization. One of their founders, Mark Hart (aka the bible geek) has several popular books available on Amazon, etc. They also bring hundreds of students to Youth Conferences presented by Franciscian University of Steubenville. My daughter has attended their week long camp in Georgia and an "Inspiration Tour" at Cedar Point. That event featured a Mass, their musicians and speakers. They do a great job!
Monday, August 3, 2009 12:53:00 PM EST
Baron Korf said...
LifeTeen isn't bad, but I wouldn't use it if it were up to me. I teach confirmation and while we are officially part of LifeTeen, we deviate a lot. Not because the material steers you wrong, but it just seems so shallow in places. But then again, many of this High Schoolers are babies in the faith, some haven't had a single lesson since their first communion.
Monday, August 3, 2009 1:34:00 PM EST
Anonymous said...
I would personally like to see Life Teen and their rock Masses be banished from the Catholic Church.
Monday, August 3, 2009 4:41:00 PM EST
Kneeling Catholic said...
Lex orandi lex credendi. Life Teen masses produce an atmosphere which offends many Catholics. Not just older Catholics. I know teens and pre-teens who don't like the condescending approach, nor the 'hootenanny' (to use Bishop Weakland's original phrase for hip masses with which he was enamored)atmosphere.

...As for their approach to the Holy Eucharist, Father Martin. Don't look at what they say...look at what they do and what they promote: i.e. a very casual approach to Our Lord. When is the last time you saw someone kneel to receive at a Life Teen mass? Oh, I get it...they're not in to that. That would go against what they are trying to accomplish.... If Eucharistic gratitude and awe go against what they are, then what are they?
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 4:49:00 AM EST





Father Martin Fox said...
Kneeling:I'm not sure you read fully what I wrote.
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 7:59:00 AM EST


Kneeling Catholic said...
I'm sorry Father,you are right. my vision blurred when you mentioned "what it [Life Teen teaching materials] said about the Eucharist....".However a closer reading of your original still gives me impression you don't see Life Teen's raucous and offensive celebrations as a very big problem. Isn't the liturgy also a teaching material?What are we teaching 'the children' when the Mass takes on the appearance of a 'brush arbor' camp meeting?....

A friend of mine once wondered that if Catholic schools - a hot bed of Life Teen activism - want to teach the children to act like fake protestants then what will stop them, when they finally get around to reflecting, from deciding it might be more honest just to be real protestants?

K. C.

.....Scott W. said...
>>A friend of mine once wondered that if Catholic schools - a hot bed of Life Teen activism - want to teach the children to act like fake protestants then what will stop them, when they finally get around to reflecting, from deciding it might be more honest just to be real protestants.<<

It is right that you mention the protestant angle because when I implemented LT (which I later regretted), the priest had in mind specifically a non-Catholic outfit Crossroads that he was worried was sheep stealing and wanted something that was the parishes' own. A reasonable goal I'd say, but the problem is that for one, you'll easily be out-competed by a group that has basically an anything-goes approach to worship, and morever, by trying to be relevant in the same way, you only end up with the worst thing imaginable: a faith that has been reduced to a commodity sitting on a shelf with countless other products competing for attention. The only result one can count on from this approach is trivialization.
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:37:00 AM EST


Gail F said...
Poor Fr. Fox, has anyone read what he wrote???He said that the catechetical materials are good and that he doesn't allow the LifeTeen liturgical stuff. Now, if you are suspicious of the catechetical stuff because of the liturgical stuff, that's a legitimate suspicion. But please do Fr. Fox the courtesy of listening to what he has to say about the catechetical stuff, which HE FINDS SOUND AND INTERESTING.Our parish uses "Faith First," which is the choice of our Archdiocese and which I think is a waste of time and trees.
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:56:00 AM EST


Father Martin Fox said...
Kneeling:I guess you didn't read what I said here:"Where LifeTeen has taken knocks is on liturgy; in fairness to LifeTeen, some of the goofy stuff associated with them goes back a lot of years, and the organization corrected the bad advice they were giving; but some of those bad practices are still followed. That is the fault of the priests and parishes doing that. Now, their liturgical materials are not outstanding, but they're not counseling disobedience to the rubrics. ...

But as a pastor, I pay zero attention to their liturgical materials anyway.I will expand on that: most Catholic materials I see in circulation are "not outstanding" on liturgy! Very little material I see has caught up with Pope Benedict's "hermeneutic of continuity" on the liturgy. That said, I repeat: LifeTeen materials counsel respect for the rubrics. To the extent they think there's a wide variety of musical options available, they are in the "mainstream" that is, as I said, out of sync with Pope Benedict. ...

As far as being "Protestant" and not sufficiently being Eucharistic, I would point out that LifeTeen emphasizes Eucharistic adoration. How "Protestant" is that? On a related note: I've been to Franciscan U. in Steubenville, where they have Eucharistic holy hours that include "praise and worship" music. You may not like it; and it needs to be handled carefully; but if you think these college kids lack reverence or ardor, you are badly mistaken....

Once again, many of the notorious practices associated with LifeTeen go back many years and are no longer endorsed by the organization. Yet various parishes are still doing them. What do you expect LifeTeen to do, send out hit squads? The fault lies with the pastors, who control the celebration of the liturgy, and who too often think this is the way to be "hip."
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:02:00 AM EST
Kneeling Catholic said...
Well! (humpf)Dear Father...(I just looked at your blog and I really liked it)

We are, unfortunately, not agreeing about Life Teen. My original question --when was the last time you saw someone kneel to receive Communion at a 'Life Teen' mass?-- was not rhetorical. Have you ever? (I have not) ...

Maybe Life Teen up there isn't like Life Teen down here Texas way! If their reverence for the Eucharist is not reflected in the Mass, then the reverence they teach is missing the main point.Maybe what it is they are not teaching, reverence during worship, is more important than all their theology.I could be wrong...k.c.
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:26:00 AM EST
Father Martin Fox said...
KC:In answer to your question...I can't recall seeing it, but let me qualify that by: (a) I don't go to so-called "LifeTeen Masses" as I don't do that here; (b) I don't see people kneeling for communion very often anywhere in the new form of the Mass, as the normative posture is standing. Now, don't get me wrong, I have zero problem with someone kneeling--but it's not called for, and technically is in conflict with the rubrics, so--it's something I cannot in good conscience urge people to do. I would prefer the rubric be changed on that point. But the thing is, if that is your measure, then the Masses in my parish are deficient, because while it happens, with no discouragement, it isn't very common.So I really wonder how meaningful that is to say what we think about Life Teen.
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:38:00 AM EST
Father Martin Fox said...
KC -- by the way, thanks for visiting my blog and the kind words!
Tuesday, August 4, 2009 10:38:00 AM EST


Kneeling Catholic said...
Father!I apologize for being contentious. but since I have you on the line...let me ask you one more question...I know you have to 'toe the line' and 'catechize' the disobedient people who fall to their knees before Jesus.but would there be something wrong with giving a sermon on 'Why, since last year's feast of Corpus Christi, does the Pope make everyone kneel for Jesus?'

...We are hearing Eucharistic sermons these Sundays anyway. I think many priests would avoid such a 'teaching moment' because that would make them have to choose between following the USCCB regulations or being true to the Pope's humble example.
thanks for listening!...
keep up the good work!...
pray for me and mine!..

k.c.

Father Martin Fox said... Kneeling:I don't say anything about people who kneel to receive communion, other than what I've said here; I don't correct them. No one has asked me about it, but if someone does, I'll explain that while it's not exactly in line with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (a product of Rome, not the U.S. bishops, although they had input), ...

Rome says to let it go, and that's what I do.Meanwhile, I'm aware of the pope's example, but he knows full well that I'm bound by the General Instruction, and he, as pope, has power to revise them, which I do not. So I obey the instructions; and he can change them whenever he chooses. So I don't accept the notion that there's a tension: the pope wants his priests to obey the rubrics. He, as supreme legislator, can do things I cannot--i.e., make exceptions to the existing law.

Kneeling Catholic said...
Father, you didn’t answer my question. Which was if it would be wrong to preach about the meaning of the Holy Father's example.

>>>Father Martin Fox said... Kneeling:I don't say anything about people who kneel to receive communion, other than what I've said here; I don't correct them.<<< t

then you are already in violation of the American GIRM. Which says you are supposed to ‘catechize’ violators.>

>>>> No one has asked me about it, but if someone does, I'll explain that while it's not exactly in line with the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (a product of Rome, not the U.S. bishops, although they had input),<<<.

Just a minute! Father, if I had been born yesterday I would take you to mean that Rome is the author of the following…[from the girm] [the norm to stand during Holy Communion]

>>>The norm for the reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with the proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm...<<

You know that’s that not the case….anymore than Rome was the author of the defective English liturgy translation which is now has to be flushed.Don’t blame Rome for authoring this confusion….I can understand how if I had written that piece of chewing gum I too would want to push the blame off on someone else. But Rome did not write that! Some double-talking American diplomat did. Rome conceded. ....

by way of example, if my daughter asks me if she can buy purple hair dye and I concede, I did not ‘produce’ the idea. She did. If I then tell her she has to wash it out anytime I’m in the house and she whines and says it was me who told her to buy it, well…she’s wrong. And, if you really believe Rome produced the American norm of standing, so are you.You are confounding making a concession with authoring. pray for me

k.c.