>>>Now, while it’s true that the Holy Spirit is not the Redeemer, neither is Mary, strictly speaking. "Co-redemptrix" doesn't mean "coredeemer," but "Woman with the Redeemer." <<<<
One of us is just plain wrong on this! I think 'redemptor' simply means 'redeemer'... therefore co-Redemptrix must mean co-redeemer.
If all the term meant was "Woman with the Redeemer", not only would all Catholics have signed on to 5th dogma petition.....all Baptists, Mormons and Muslims would have joined in! Talk about an ecumenical ground swell!!..
With regards to the Holy Spirit being a sort of "Redeemer"....In the 'Te Deum' Christ's redeeming roll is tied to His humanity - 'You redeemed your people with your precious Blood'. Therefore I think it also our Lady's human suffering which qualifies her as a redemptrix, the Immaculate suffering for the wicked. This is why I believe Redemption is Jesus Christ Incarnate's roll in the Holy Trinity, and not the Father's nor the Spirit's. It reminds me a little of modalism when we start saying the Spirit is some kind of Redeemer, or for that matter 'because Mary is the Holy Spirit's spouse she must be Christ's as well.'..
On another note...speaking of Mary's iconship not being limited to the Holy Spirit...I think she images the Father in being Theotokos. Don't we believe Christ is born of the Father before all ages? ex Patre-ex Maria
keep praying for me! maybe I'll come around
Rosemarie's post for all who would like to respond....
>>>I still don't see how, if Mary is the human analog or icon or quasi-incarnation to the Holy Spirit, that her co-redeeming fits that role.
To answer this, I’d like to begin by quoting a Mariologist, Fr. Rene Laurentin. While I don’t always agree with him on everything, he does make some good points on this topic that I’d like us to consider. In his _ A Short Treatise on the Virgin Mary_,...
Fr. Laurentin writes:Here again, therefore, Mary is seen entirely in relation to Christ. Less recognition has been given to the complementary truth that she is also entirely relative to the Holy Spirit. She acts in dependence on him. The title of “coredemptrix” which was coined for her and widely attributed to her by Mariologists, though not retained by the papal magisterium or by Vatican II, would fit the Holy Spirit in the primary and strictest sense of the term; for he is the Spirit of Christ, and by his anointing and breath the whole saving work of the Redeemer is animated. The title “co-Redeemer” would aptly describe him, according to a divine equality that would give full force to the prefix “co-“. Mary owes the fact that she was able to communicate in this sacrifice to the Holy Spirit, who not only cooperated in the essential work by his anointing, but also divinely stirred up the cooperation of the first of the redeemed. With him who is “co-Redeemer” she contracts this new bond at the time of the essential sacrifice. The Spirit had urged her on to Calvary so that she might stand there as the first fruits of the cooperating Church, at the very hour when the sign of the Church was to appear from the pierced side of the Savior (Jn. 19:34). (pp. 242-243.)Now, while it’s true that the Holy Spirit is not the Redeemer, neither is Mary, strictly speaking.
"Co-redemptrix" doesn't mean "coredeemer," but "Woman with the Redeemer." Mary works with Jesus, playing a subordinate role in the redemption of the world. The Holy Ghost also works “with the Redeemer,” so that ties into Fr. Laurentin’s assertion that He could be called “co-Redeemer” (although he is not our Redeemer).Mariologists say that the Blessed Virgin’s role as Co-redemptrix is threefold.
First, she gave Jesus the Body and Blood that He offered up to the Father for our salvation. This was, of course, effectively accomplished in her by the Holy Spirit, as we say in the Creed that Christ was “conceived by the Holy Ghost.” Second, she united her sufferings to His on Calvary. Fr. Laurentin says above that the Spirit “stirred” her to do this. Third, she participates in the distribution of the grace of salvation that her Son gained on Calvary. Recall that St. Maximilian wrote, “as the spouse of the Holy Spirit, she shares in the distribution of all graces.” So here, too, we see the action of the Third Person of the Trinity in and through Mary.
This is why I don’t see how her Co-redemptrix role contradicts her close union[nice switcheroo there! 'close union with' substituted for 'earthly image of'. If Dr. Hahn were only saying Mary had a 'close union' with the Holy Spirit then we would not be having this discussion]with the Holy Ghost. On the contrary, the two are very much intertwined. Mary is the ‘Woman with the Redeemer” precisely because the Spirit of God, Who worked with Christ throughout His earthly life and continues to work with Him in the Church, has associated the Blessed Virgin with His work and works through her in a special way. The Spirit works with Christ through Mary, she works with Christ by the power of the Spirit.I hope that helps clarify what I’ve been saying all along. Feel free to ask more questions.>>>Pray for me!Please pray for me as well!In Jesu et Maria,Rosemarie